Lt Col Neville Elliott-Cooper VC

[anthony]

The anniversary of the action for which Elliott-Cooper was awarded Victoria Cross, 30 November, has just passed for another year. I had not realised until today than on the 30th I had been discussing with some friends the definition of a posthumous award. Our consensus was that a posthumous award was an award in which the recipient died, for any reason, prior to gazettal. Those who have a copy of Sir John Smyth’s 1963 book on the VC will note that at page 270 Elliott-Cooper is not noted to be a posthumous award although he died of wounds before his award was gazetted. Others may have other definitions but I think it is reasonable to consider the award to Elliott-Cooper as posthumous.

[roberthenry]

Read your post Anthony and have just had a look through Monuments to Courage (the only publication I have that lists posthumous VCs) and I found ten WW1 recipients not listed as posthumous but who died before they were gazetted

William Cotter died 14 Mar 1916 Gaz 30 Mar 1916
Leo Clarke died 19 Oct 1916 Gaz 26 Oct 1916
John Pattison died 3 June 1917 Gaz 2 Aug 1917
Arthur Henderson died24 Apr 1917 Gaz 5Jul 1917
Neville Elliott-Cooper died 11 Feb 1918 Gaz 13Feb 1918
Thomas Pryce died 13 Apr 1918 Gaz 22May 1918
George Prowse died 27 Sept 1918 Gaz 30 Oct 1918
Lawrence Weathers died 29 Sept 1918 Gaz 26 Dec 1918
John McNamara died 16 Oct 1918 Gaz 15 Nov 1918
Thomass Neely died 1 Oct 1918 Gaz 14 Dec 1918

But I also found four listed as Posthumous but who had died long after being gazetted

William Johnston Gaz 25 Nov 1914 died 8 June 1915
Abraham Acton Gaz18 Feb 1915 died 16 May 1915
William Young Gaz 30 Mar 1916 died 27 Aug 1916
James Fynn Gaz 26 Sept 1916 died 30 Mar 1917

It would be interesting to know how the above four were listed as Posthumous.

[anthony]

Robert

Thanks for your comments and research.

In addition to the ten WW1 recipients not listed as posthumous but who died before they were gazetted I would add:

John Crawford Buchan died 22 Mar 1918 Gaz 22 May 1918
John Harrison died 03 May 1917 Gaz 14 Jun 1917
Edward Mannock died 26 Jul 1918 Gaz 18 Jul 1919

That makes 13 including Arthur Henderson who died 24 Apr 1917 Gaz 5 Jul 1917 who you listed. Neither MofC and Smyth list him as posthumous but the War Office 1953 List does list him as posthumous.

I can add two names listed as posthumous but who had died after being gazetted

Francis Octavus Grenfell Gaz 16 Nov 1914 died 24 May 1915
John Aidan Liddell Gaz 23 Aug 1915 died 31 Aug 1915

In addition Roland Boys Bradford died 30 Nov 1917 Gaz 25 Nov 1916 is listed in both the War Office 1953 List and Smyth as posthumous. MofC picked up that error.

So the War Office 1953 List has seven names listed as posthumous for recipients who died after being gazetted!

A quick look through MofC shows that the six 1907 awards are marked but only five of the six 1902 awards are marked as posthumous. Smyth only listed five of the six 1902 awards as posthumous. Both MofC and Smyth missed Atkinson. MofC listed Roberts who was not an “official” posthumous award since the recommendation was raised before his death. There are about 13 other awards like Roberts in which the recipient died before gazettal. Included in that total is Walter Hamilton whose VC was gazetted in October 1879 but the award was backdated to 1 September 1879, two days before his death.

Anthony

[anthony]

Robert

Monuments of Courage does not list the following four awards as posthumous.

Frederick Thornton Peters died 11 Nov 1942 Gaz 18 May 1943
John T M Anderson died 23 Apr 1943 Gaz 29 Jun 1943
Lionel Ernest Queripel died 19 Sep 1944 Gaz 01 Feb 1945
Ian Oswald Liddell died 21 Apr 1945 Gaz 07 Jun 1945

Anthony

[roberthenry]

Anthony

Been looking at the recipients you have posted and I did miss Edward Mannock Gazette date by a whole year,

John Crawford Buchan and John Harrison are both listed as Posthumous in M to C.

In your second post
John T M Anderson was Gaz 29 June 1943 and died 5 Oct 1943 . 23 Apr, was his VC action date .

but there is also

George Gristock died 16 June 1940 Gaz 23 Aug 1940
John H C Brunt died 10 Dec 1944 Gaz 8 Feb 1945

neither is listed as posthumous

Regards
R Henry

[anthony]

Robert

Although John Crawford Buchan and John Harrison are both listed as posthumous in M to C neither is listed as posthumous in the WO 1953 list or Smyth. Both George Gristock and John H C Brunt are listed as posthumous in WO 1953 list and Smyth.

I had the wrong date of death for John T M Anderson. Appreciate the correction.

In other words M to C, the WO 1953 list and Smyth are very similiar but there are slight inconsistancies between the three lists. Since M to C is the modern reference I will do a consoldated table based on M of C.

Anthony

[roberthenry]

Anthony I have to say that I had never really took too much heed to the posthumous listings before, other than noting to myself that some of them who were not listed as posthumous obviously were, since they had died either during the action or very soon after.
But your original post would certainly seem to be the correct criteria for defining posthumous VCs.

Regards
R Henry