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Post by David Cochrane on Aug 21, 2017 18:14:14 GMT
This subject has come up before (such as on the old chapter-one site), particularly the old 'quality-quantity' argument and how one weighs different decorations (assuming one takes 'quality' into account at all).
The multi-volume work on DSOs from 1923-2010, as well as the two-volume DFC directory from 1918-1995, have been very useful when determining purely quantity - the DSO books include every DSO recipient from the Air Force or Navy who was decorated four times or more, though regrettably they didn't include such a list for Army recipients.
If one looks purely at 'quality,' then of course the top spot goes to Capt Upham with his VC & Bar.
If one looks purely at 'quantity,' then it's W/C Tait, who received a DSO & 3 Bars and a DFC & Bar. As far as I can find, the only other person to be decorated six times was W/C Braham, who got a DSO & 2 Bars and a DFC & 2 Bars.
If one tries to mix the two, a case can be made for W/C Cheshire, who in addition to his VC, received a DSO & 2 Bars and a DFC. I can only find ten other people who have been decorated five times, seven of whom were Air Force (and one - W/C Gibson - who had a VC), two were Navy (Cdr Bennington & Lt-Cdr Hichens), and one Army (Lt-Col Pearson). I'm sure there are more Army personnel, but like I said it's been harder to find info on them.
So far it seems as though Air Force personnel dominate the list - of the 85 men I've found so far who've been decorated four times, the breakdown is 55 Air Force, 27 Navy and 3 Army (though there are bound to be more Army men I haven't unearthed yet).
This makes a total of 98 personnel - 65 Air Force, 29 Navy & 4 Army. I'm quite certain of the Air Force numbers, and reasonably so of the Navy. Four of them (W/C Cheshire, W/C Gibson, Maj Lassen & Lt-Cdr Wanklyn) are VC recipients.
Army personnel I have so far are as follows: Lt-Col A. S. Pearson, DSO & 3 Bars, MC Maj A. F. E. V. S. Lassen, VC, MC & 2 Bars Brig D. A. Kendrew, DSO & 3 Bars Lt-Col R. B. Mayne, DSO & 3 Bars
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Post by anthony on Aug 25, 2017 14:54:52 GMT
David
Happy New Year. I think you are the first person posting in 2017.
For quality I think you need a VC so I agree Upham rates the top spot. For runner up, I would prefer Lassen to Cheshire since Lassen received four gallantry awards including the VC whereas Cheshire received the VC and one gallantry award. I agree Cheshire received DSO & two bars but the DSO is an award for distinguished leadership and while in some cases is awarded for gallantry it is not an gallantry award as such.
As to most, it depends on your definition, It could be most gallantry awards which in the names supplied the top ranking is Lassen or most whatever. I prefer most gazetted including MIDs and foreign awards gazetted so the top recipient would be a general in WW1 and maybe an air force officer in WW2.
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Post by David Cochrane on Sept 6, 2017 0:54:51 GMT
Yes, the DSO is one that straddled boundaries between leadership and gallantry (although since the CGC was introduced in 1993, it's purely a leadership decoration). However, W/C Cheshire's first DSO certainly belongs in the gallantry category as it was for a single operation. The others were, I think, awarded for a sustained period of success, but so were his DFCs (and so were most DFCs).
DSOs and DFCs (and MCs and DSCs) were often given for great achievement or sustained success - as were a number of VCs for pilots in the First World War - so I wouldn't remove the DSO from the combat decorations pyramid. It often seems as though a big factor in whether a person got a DSO or DFC was how senior the pilot was, or if he'd already gotten two bars to the DFC. I don't think anyone ever got a third bar, but there were quite a few pilots who got a DSO after getting a third DFC. I'm reluctant to include foreign decorations, as these are often for acts already recognized by British decorations. Mentions in Dispatches will of course catch many men who died and so couldn't receive an actual gong, but I haven't included them here as they (for the already-mentioned reason) can cover such a wide range of standards - either something not quite deserving of a DFC, or something deserving of a CGM or DSO but the man died.
Here are the Air Force personnel I've found with four or more decorations (excluding AFMs and the like); VCs & GCs plus any other decoration will appear too. The type of aircraft flown, plus the man's score if he was an ace, I've also included. Pre- & post-War decorations I've excluded, which is why ACM Embry is listed as having two Bars to his DSO instead of three.
Six Awards J. B. Tait, DSO & 3 Bars, DFC & Bar (Bomber) J. R. D. Braham, DSO & 2 Bars, DFC & 2 Bars (Night Fighter) (29 victories)
Five Awards G. L. Cheshire, VC, DSO & 2 Bars, DFC (Bomber) G. P. Gibson, VC, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Bomber) (died 1944) J. Cunningham, DSO & 2 Bars, DFC & Bar (Night Fighter) (20 victories) D. E. Gillam, DSO & 2 Bars, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (7.33 victories) J. E. Johnson, DSO & 2 Bars, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (36.92 victories) R. H. Harries, DSO & Bar, DFC & 2 Bars (Fighter) (16.75 victories) H. B. M. Martin, DSO & Bar, DFC & 2 Bars (Bomber) (first DSO for Dams raid) A. Warburton, DSO & Bar, DFC & 2 Bars (Recce) (7 victories) (died 1944)
Four Awards B. E. Embry, DSO & 2 Bars, DFC (Bomber) J. E. Fauquier, DSO & 2 Bars, DFC (Bomber) P. C. Pickard, DSO & 2 Bars, DFC (Bomber) (died 1944) R. C. Alabaster, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Bomber) D. R. S. Bader, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (21.83 victories) S. Baker, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Bomber) J. R. Baldwin, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (15.5 victories) J. F. Barron, DSO & Bar, DFC, DFM (Bomber) (died 1944) R. P. Beamont, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (6.33 victories) J. Blackburn, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Bomber) H. Broadhurst, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (13 victories) R. E. P. Brooker, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (8 victories) (died 1945) T. M. Bulloch, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Coastal) B. A. Burbridge, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Night Fighter) (21 victories) W. V. Crawford-Compton, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (20.5 victories) G. W. Curry, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Bomber) S. P. Daniels, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Bomber) W. G. G. Duncan-Smith, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (18 victories) M. A. Ensor, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Coastal) B. R. O. Hoare, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (9 victories) G. C. Keefer, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (12 victories) A. D. J. Lovell, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (18.5 victories) A. G. Malan, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (29.5 victories) C. G. Milson, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Coastal) J. Rankin, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (19.08 victories) R. W. Reynolds, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Bomber) D. J. Shannon, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Bomber) (first DSO for Dams raid) G. D. Sise, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Coastal) F. S. Skelton, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Night Observer) P. G. Wykeham-Barnes, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (Fighter) (14.9 victories) L. H. Baveystock, DSO, DFC & Bar, DFM (Bomber) (was on F/O Manser's crew) G. F. Beurling, DSO, DFC, DFM & Bar (Fighter) (31.33 victories) I. G. Broom, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Bomber) S. Clayton, DSO, DFC & Bar, DFM (Bomb Navigator) A. W. G. Cochrane, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Bomber) N. F. Duke, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Fighter) (27.83 victories) B. E. F. Finucane, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Fighter) (29 victories) (died 1942) C. F. Gray, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Fighter) (27.7 victories) W. J. Gregory, DSO, DFC & Bar, DFM (Night Observer) F. D. Hughes, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Night Fighter) (18.5 victories) P. H. Hugo, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Fighter) (17.92 victories) D. E. Kingaby, DSO, DFM & 2 Bars (Fighter) (21.67 victories) (only person to get DFM & 2 Bars) J. A. F. Maclachlan, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Fighter) (16.5 victories) (died 1943) R. W. McNair, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Fighter) (16 victories) C. M. Miller, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Night Fighter) (4 victories) C. F. Rawnsley, DSO, DFC, DFM & Bar (Night Observer) E. B. Sismore, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Bomb Navigator) M. M. Stephens, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Fighter) (16.5 victories) K. F. Thiele, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Bomber) R. R. S. Tuck, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Fighter) (27.67 victories) L. C. Wade, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars (Fighter) (23 victories) (died 1944) F. R. Carey, DFC & 2 Bars, DFM (Fighter) (26.2 victories) A. A. O'Leary, DFC & 2 Bars, DFM (Bomb Navigator) E. R. Thorn, DFC & Bar, DFM & Bar (Fighter) (12.33 victories)
VC/GC + another L. F. Sinclair, GC, DSO & Bar (Bomber) H. I. Edwards, VC, DSO, DFC (Bomber) R. A. M. Palmer, VC, DFC & Bar (Bomber) (died 1944) A. L. Aaron, VC, DFM (Bomber) (died 1943) I. W. Bazalgette, VC, DFC (Bomber) (died 1944) D. S. A. Lord, VC, DFC (Transport) (died 1944) E. J. B. Nicolson, VC, DFC (Fighter) (died 1945) E. Swales, VC, DFC (Bomber) (died 1945) L. H. Trent, VC, DFC (Bomber) L. A. Trigg, VC, DFC (Coastal) (died 1943)
Hopefully I didn't forget anyone, but this is a damned long list!
Someone I've always felt was conspicuously absent from things like this was S/L Pattle (50.67 victories), though I think this was more a consequence of his theater being largely ignored. He received two DFCs, as did S/L Vale (31.5 victories) and W/C Woodward (19.83 victories). (I think I may start up another conversation on this sort of subject . . .)
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Post by David Cochrane on Sept 9, 2017 13:43:13 GMT
If one looks purely at the most successful aces, as well as their decorations, this is how the list reads (pilots with 20+ confirmed victories):
M. T. St.J. Pattle, DFC & Bar - 50.67 victories / 2 decorations J. E. Johnson, DSO & 2 Bars, DFC & Bar - 36.92 / 5 W. Vale, DFC & Bar - 31.5 victories / 2 G. F. Beurling, DSO, DFC, DFM & Bar - 31.33 / 4 A. G. Malan, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar - 29.5 / 4 J. R. D. Braham, DSO & 2 Bars, DFC & 2 Bars - 29 / 6 B. E. F. Finucane, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars - 29 / 4 C. R. Caldwell, DSO, DFC & Bar - 28.5 / 3 J. H. Lacey, DFM & Bar - 28 / 2 N. F. Duke, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars - 27.83 / 4 C. F. Gray, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars - 27.7 / 4 R. R. S. Tuck, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars - 27.67 / 4 F. R. Carey, DFC & 2 Bars, DFM - 26.2 / 4 E. S. Lock, DSO, DFC & Bar - 26 / 3 L. C. Wade, DSO, DFC & 2 Bars - 23 / 4 D. R. S. Bader, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar - 21.83 / 4 D. E. Kingaby, DSO, DFM & 2 Bars - 21.67 / 4 E. D. Mackie, DSO, DFC & Bar - 21.5 / 3 B. A. Burbridge, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar - 21 / 4 M. N. Crossley, DSO, DFC - 21 / 2 B. Drake, DSO, DFC & Bar - 21 / 3 H. W. McLeod, DSO, DFC & Bar - 21 / 3 W. V. Crawford-Compton, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar - 20.5 / 4 J. Cunningham, DSO & 2 Bars, DFC & Bar - 20 / 5
The most common set seems to be a DSO and 3 DFC/DFMs - it does seem that, once a pilot's score was high enough (or he had received three DFCs), then the next award was a DSO (though some got their DSO after two DFCs, with the third to follow).
Pilots whose scores were accumulated early in the War (Crossley, Lacey & Lock, who all had 20+ victories by the end of 1940) seemed to receive fewer decorations; pilots who flew in the Mediterranean theater in 1940 and 1941 (Pattle & Vale) received even fewer. Even later in the War, pilots who scored principally in that theater (Caldwell, Mackie, Drake, McLeod) got fewer than their European counterparts. Buzz Beurling was an exception, but his extremely high and rapidly-accumulated score may have had something to do with that.
In contrast, pilots who accumulated most of their scores while already commanding successful Squadrons or Wings (Johnson, Malan & Bader) tended to receive higher levels of decorations. Being a night-fighter pilot (Braham, Burbridge & Cunningham) also seemed to bring a bonus.
One notable contrast with the First World War is that pilots who held the top spot throughout the War are not among the most highly-decorated, and there were certainly no VCs: Edgar Kain, the first ace, received one DFC, while Newell Orton, the first to reach 15 victories, received two DFCs (however, special circumstances - loss of records in France, plus F/O Kain's death, undoubtedly played a role). Michael Crossley was the first to reach 20 (already discussed above), while the next holders of most successful ace were Lacey (October 1940) & Pattle (March 1941). Rapidity of scoring would probably have played a role, as well as loss of records and death in the case of S/L Pattle.
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